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The glossary in english : Le glossaire en anglais
http://dungeontwister.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=559
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Auteur:  gheintze [ 31 Aoû 2009, 23:15 ]
Sujet du message: 

Sherinford a écrit:
Citation:
1. a paladin with two ropes may cross both pit traps and keep both ropes (when translating the glossary this was different in two sections). It is my understanding, that when a rope is placed, it must have two valid attachment points. If one of the points changes, it doesn't matter -- the rope is still valid. Thus, the paladin can place the 2nd rope (which has two valid attachment points when placed) and take the first rope. Then move over the 2nd and take the 2nd rope.
This answer was in the glossary in the Paladin and Ice Witch description, but the rope and double pit trap descriptions said the Paladin could cross, but not pick up the first rope.


In a single move, he must leave the first rope.

But he still could do a go-between to get it back..


Could you explain more? How could he use a go-between?

Let me see -- so if the Paladin has two ropes and uses them both to cross a double pit trap, he can only pick up the 2nd one. That makes sense to me from a realistic viewpoint, but I wish the glossary had been correct... :(

I guess in that case, I will need to correct the Paladin and Ice Witch entries from the glossary since they were wrong. I'll add the clarifications back to the rope and double pit trap sections.

Sherinford a écrit:
Citation:
2. at the time of jumping, the square on the starting (escape) line must be valid


Right.

Citation:
3. at the time of passing through a wall, the two squares must be valid. Thus, the wall-walker can pass through a wall onto a pit trap that already has a rope, but she cannot carry a rope through the wall to arrive on a pit trap.


I think Chris ruled that the Wall walker was able to cross the wall bringing the rope with her...

Yes... Confirmation here:

http://www.legobelin.net/faq_lire_en.php?id=4


So is this FAQ official and approved by Chris? If so, is there anyway to print out a pdf in English. It would be nice to have a hardcopy of the answers while playing.

Thanks, Sherinford. I appreciate you answering my questions.

Just out of curiousity, how often do double pit traps show up? And how often will you have a paladin with two ropes to cross them? :D

Geoff

Auteur:  mayo66 [ 01 Sep 2009, 13:07 ]
Sujet du message: 

gheintze a écrit:
... so if the Paladin has two ropes and uses them both to cross a double pit trap, he can only pick up the 2nd one. That makes sense to me from a realistic viewpoint...
Just out of curiousity, how often do double pit traps show up? And how often will you have a paladin with two ropes to cross them? :D


Dear Geoff,

no statistics have been released yet, but if this situation occurs in a game you're playing and perhaps in a crucial situation, it's good to know the answer. Besides when you're playing with friends you'll can also boast with profound knowledge of the rules. 8-)

I try to sort the paladin's walk over a double pit trap out:
1. He goes on to the first trap, laying down the rope (if he has to points of anchorage for the rope) on the first pit trap. For doing so he achieves to goals: 1st the pit trap becomes a valid square. 2nd while a valid square the paladin could stay there AND the formerly pit trap functions as an additional anchorage point for the 2nd rope if needed.
2. Now the paladin can walk over the 2nd pit trap as normal because it's no longer a double pit trap but a single pit trap. (The first one is still covered by the rope.) But he can't take the 1st rope with him!
3. If the paladin walks further onto the 2nd pit trap he might lay down the 2nd rope on it. If done so, then - and only then - he could go back on the 1st trap taking the 1st rope with him.

1 - 2 - 3 - 4
with 1: Paladin + 2 ropes; 2+3: pit traps; 4: valid square means:
1 AP:
move 1: Paladin 1>2 (rope on 2)
move 2: Paladin 2>3 (rope on 3)
move 3: Paladin 3>2
move 4: Paladin 2>3 (taken the rope with him)
Actions ends!

What I really don't know right now is, if it's not the paladin but the ice witch who has two ropes, if she could take the 2nd rope with her. Also:
1 AP:
move 1: Ice Witch 1>2 (rope on 2)
move 2: Ice Witch 2>3 (rope on 3)
move 3: Ice Witch 3>2
move 4: Ice Witch 2>3 (taken the rope with her)
move 5: Ice Witch 3>4 (taken the other rope with her ????????)
Actions ends!

But as you've already mentioned: How often does an Ice Witch with two ropes stand in front of a double pit trap. :? My advice: Leave the ropes or take an other way. :D

Auteur:  gheintze [ 01 Sep 2009, 19:50 ]
Sujet du message: 

Thanks Mayo for the post. I'm just going to write it again to make sure I understand.

Paladin is confronted with a double pit trap and carrying two ropes. (his movement is 4)

Option one
1. Paladin puts down rope #1 and moves onto the first pit trap.
2. Paladin puts down rope #2 (leaving rope #1) and moves onto the second pit trap.
3. Paladin picks up rope #2 and can move onto the square past the pit trap. He is only carrying one rope.
4. Paladin can move one more square (still carrying one rope).

Option two
1. Paladin puts down rope #1 and moves onto the first pit trap
2. Paladin puts down rope #2 (leaving rope #1) and moves onto the second pit trap.
3. Paladin move back onto the first pit trap (leaving rope #2 on the second pit trap).
4. Paladin can now pick up rope #1 and moves back to the second pit trap.
5. The paladin is now out of moves, but on his next turn he will be able to move off the second pit trap and still be carrying both ropes.

If these examples are correct, I assume that the Ice Witch will be able to do all of that in one action.
1. Ice Witch puts down rope #1 and moves onto the first pit trap
2. Ice witch pust down rope #2 (leaving rope #1) and moves onto the second pit trap.
3. Ice Witch moves back onto the first pit trap (leaving rope #2 on the second pit trap).
4. Ice Witch picks up rope #1 and moves back to the second pit trap.
5. Ice Witch picks up rope #2 and moves off the second pit trap to an adjacent square (carrying both ropes).

Or the Ice Witch can move over both pit traps and move three additional squares, but she will only be carrying one rope then.

Is this all correct? Hopefully, Phil and Sherinford will give their opinions as well.

I just want to make sure that the glossary is correct. I can't really find an official FAQ in English -- unless the one at legobelin.net is official. If so, I wish I could print it out easily.

I'm frustrated that it's so hard to find answers to these questions in English. I really hope that English support is better with DT2.

If these answers are correct, I will go back and check the English glossary. I will make sure to clarify and correct the entries for the Paladin, Ice Witch, double pit trap, rope, and Wall-Walker.

Mayo -- do you agree that the Wall-Walker can carry a rope through the wall to arrive on a pit trap? Just curious.

Thanks again for all your help. I'm looking forward to finishing this up. :)

Geoff

Auteur:  mayo66 [ 01 Sep 2009, 21:49 ]
Sujet du message: 

Hi Geoff,

first of all: All three options are correct. (As I understand the rules. ;) )

Citation:
Mayo -- do you agree that the Wall-Walker can carry a rope through the wall to arrive on a pit trap? Just curious.


To be honest I've never thought about it because I'm not thinking in categories as "agree/disagree" when studying rules. The way I'm handling rules is to extract a "general rule" that I can apply when similiar situations occur not explained in the rules. I admit that for DT this is a very hard stuff. (While playing Magic it was a lot easier.)

For the paladin/2ropes/doubletrap-problem the "general rule" is:
While leaving a trap covered by a rope you'll can only take the rope with you if the square you're moving to is a valid one before you're moving.

The wall-walker is a problem of her own 'cause there exists no similiarity. While penetrating a wall she neither moves nor jumps but uses her own special ability. So I'm depending on the rules, FAQs and glossar. It's more than unsatisfying that the latter contradict theirselves. :(
In fact, I don't agree with the wall-walker's ability. In my opinion she's to weak when trying to escape. I would have liked it when either she could have passed a wall while moving with a must-stop at the 1st square right behind the wall or she could have started her normal movement adjacent to a wall passing it a the beginning. But no one has ever asked me. ;) Until now. Thanks. Yes, I agree that the Wall-Walker can carry a rope through the wall to arrive on a pit trap.

Mario

Auteur:  gheintze [ 01 Sep 2009, 22:18 ]
Sujet du message: 

mayo66 a écrit:
For the paladin/2ropes/doubletrap-problem the "general rule" is:
While leaving a trap covered by a rope you'll can only take the rope with you if the square you're moving to is a valid one before you're moving.


This is awesome! It's exactly what I was looking for to put in the glossary. A general rule that applies and makes sense of the double pit trap problem. :D

Now I can edit the relevant entries in the glossary and consider it finished. 8-)

Danke!

Geoff

Auteur:  gheintze [ 02 Sep 2009, 06:42 ]
Sujet du message:  Final (really, this is the last) corrections...

Thanks to Mario, Sherinford, and Phil for all their help.

After resolving the above questions, here are the final changes.

Geoff

(Woo hoo -- I'm done!!!!)

Wall-Walker -- fourth point -- • The Wall-Walker can pass through a wall to arrive on an obstacle with a rope already across it. She may also pass through a wall carrying a rope to arrive on a pit trap or other obstacle. She may cross an obstacle with the rope first, and then pass through the wall (to enter a valid square), and take the rope with her.

Rope -- last point -- • If you wish to cross 2 successive squares of pit traps (or other obstacles), you can use the rope to cross the first pit trap and use a jump to go over the second without taking the rope (the whole action requires 2 AP) (see double pit).

Double Pit Trap -- fourth point -- Paladin carrying two ropes can go on the first pit, drop the first rope and cross the second without dropping the second rope. He can also go back to recover the first rope after he drops the second rope. While leaving a trap using a rope, he can only take the rope with him if the square he is moving to is valid before the movement.


The paladin and ice witch are OK as written.

Auteur:  Phil Goude [ 02 Sep 2009, 06:51 ]
Sujet du message: 

ok, very thanks to gheintze... hm, and when i have a lot of time, I uploaded your last corrections, this day or tomorrow.

Auteur:  Phil Goude [ 02 Sep 2009, 09:05 ]
Sujet du message: 

totally UPLOADED !!!!!! :) :) :)

Auteur:  gheintze [ 02 Sep 2009, 12:15 ]
Sujet du message: 

Thanks Phil!! :D

It's a great feeling.

Geoff

Auteur:  mayo66 [ 02 Sep 2009, 12:40 ]
Sujet du message: 

gheintze a écrit:
mayo66 a écrit:
For the paladin/2ropes/doubletrap-problem the "general rule" is:
While leaving a trap covered by a rope you'll can only take the rope with you if the square you're moving to is a valid one before you're moving.

This is awesome! It's exactly what I was looking for to put in the glossary. A general rule that applies and makes sense of the double pit trap problem. :D


Let's hope the rule I've formulated is valid in general. ;)
I think as soon as someone will find a contradiction, he will let us know quick.

Auteur:  gheintze [ 02 Sep 2009, 16:11 ]
Sujet du message: 

Now that we've figured out these confusing rule situations, should these changes be made to the French and other language glossaries as well?

I think that it would be worthwhile to make the glossaries consistent in all languages.

Geoff

Auteur:  mayo66 [ 03 Sep 2009, 09:08 ]
Sujet du message: 

gheintze a écrit:
I think that it would be worthwhile to make the glossaries consistent in all languages.

Funny thing that you've mentioned it... ;) Have thought the same when starting translating in german.
I've met two problems:
First problem is: There's no post exclusevely for changes in the glossar. So the translators have to follow all the discussions occuring elsewhere in this forum and have to check if in the end of discussion something is changed. :(
Second problem (and the more confusing) is: If you'll ask a question about specific rules, it may happen that you'll get two different answers. ;)

I'm eager to change this unsatisfying situation and think that with the upcoming V2 we will have a close look on this subject. Starting from there we'll than have a chance to eliminate all "old problems" I hope. At least we're two comrades-in-mind. ;)

Auteur:  gheintze [ 03 Sep 2009, 15:00 ]
Sujet du message: 

I think that you are correct, and we should wait for DT2 to see if the rules are clarified.

Although, since there's no Wall-Walker, I don't expect those rules will be explained. :)

Geoff

Auteur:  mayo66 [ 03 Sep 2009, 17:26 ]
Sujet du message: 

I won't hope for a clarification. ;) But the glossaire has to be updated anyway for all that concerns the new characters and objects. And en passant...

Auteur:  Phil Goude [ 05 Sep 2009, 04:49 ]
Sujet du message: 

mayo66 a écrit:
gheintze a écrit:
I think that it would be worthwhile to make the glossaries consistent in all languages.

Funny thing that you've mentioned it... ;) Have thought the same when starting translating in german.
I've met two problems:
First problem is: There's no post exclusevely for changes in the glossar. So the translators have to follow all the discussions occuring elsewhere in this forum and have to check if in the end of discussion something is changed. :(
Second problem (and the more confusing) is: If you'll ask a question about specific rules, it may happen that you'll get two different answers. ;)

I'm eager to change this unsatisfying situation and think that with the upcoming V2 we will have a close look on this subject. Starting from there we'll than have a chance to eliminate all "old problems" I hope. At least we're two comrades-in-mind. ;)


I think the league must create a forum or sub forum exclusevely for changes in glossar !
But I am not a lot of time and I can't follow all discussions on the rules.If

Where are the different rules in glossary between english, german and french version ?

Auteur:  mayo66 [ 05 Sep 2009, 10:25 ]
Sujet du message: 

Phil Goude a écrit:
I think the league must create a forum or sub forum exclusevely for changes in glossar !

1+
...access only for translators and the players who could (and have) change(d) the entries...
Avec une obligation pour signaler les changes. :evil:

I think what I've posted at April 17th - Documentation: Suivi des modifications is still actual.

Citation:
Where are the different rules in glossary between english, german and french version ?

Don't know right now. But I remember two or three discussions (elsewhere in different threads) where in the end someone announced, that he has changed it in the glossar. Mostly added an answer to a specific situation to clear it out.

Auteur:  mayo66 [ 13 Sep 2009, 18:05 ]
Sujet du message: 

That's what I've meant... :( And now you have again different glossaires... :|

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